Malawi Mayhem

Fishguts · egg Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 82

I don't think it's bloat. I KNOW it's bloat. Trust me. It's clear, Raf, that you were going over a check list for hexamita. Trust me, it's definately bloat.

Raf · Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 9:19 pm Post subject:

ok ok, so, if you could be so kind, can you list, for the benefit of the MM members and any others who visit, a list of bloat symptoms and a list of hexamita outbreak symptoms?

Wink

Raf
_________________

Fishguts · egg Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 82

Sorry for that subtle wise crack Rolling Eyes

Check out this site:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_VM053

For bloat I have observed a slightly subdued behavior at first--swimming with the crowd, just not as active. Accepting food at a diminishing rate. Eventually becomming slower and sluggish and obviously fatter. Eventually just finding a spot to rest on the substrate or lower rock surface. Heavy breathing, but not always (that's when it can be tricky). Only moving when another fish takes liberties on it. Soon after, not moving at all. :-(

For hex I have observed similar "crowd mixing" as above. Eventually finding a secluded spot away from general population. But before it gets to that point, you see some tell tale signs that Raf mentions above:

-A sort of coughing motion on an almost consistant basis
-the fine silk thread like poop
-heavy breathing (but again, not always)
-at first only accepting random pieces of food, spitting most of it out as if it is telling you "I don't like what you're feeding me!" eventually not at all
-further along you have a fish that looks like it just woke up after an all nighter.
-very little self defending against other tank mates
-then....................... :-(

I recommend getting "Enjoying Cichlids" by Ad Konings (actually, he edits the book. contains contributons from all the cichlid gods). First edition STILL extremely valuable. I haven't read the 2nd ed. But I picked up a brand new copy on eBay (I'm a bit of a book slut. you name it, I have it) I see 'em on eBay all the time Wink

Another good book that should be found cheap is "The Manual Of Fish Health" by Dr. Chris Andrews, Adrian Exell and Dr. Neville Carrington (Tetra Press). It is a good education on certain meds, their uses and effectiveness. Mentions symtoms of diseases etc. A slightly out dated book (some meds are newer and not mentioned) but if you have more than three tanks it SHOULD be on your shelf!

I once became friendly with a guy that worked at Aquatronics in California (total coincidence!). I'm in NJ and one day I called to ask about some meds and we found out that we actually know a few people in common! What luck! He sent me a product guide that details EVERY med they sell. This guide and the two books mentioned above are like my holy trilogy for keeping my fish clean.

It is a real labor of love to get a complete handle on fish health. The people that write those lower level books know this and they know the average person won't bother, so they graciously just print the following:

Know about the fish you are keeping, have the appropriate tank set up with the proper filtration yadda yadda yadda....

And................

WATER CHANGES WATER CHANGES WATER CHANGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree! LOL
_________________
http://nycichlids.com/index.php?sid=8019716fd35a1f189cb8a0be6ab7e177

"Singing to an ocean, I can hear the ocean's roar"

A song about a group's love for their audience.

Raf · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:02 am Post subject:

Thanks Guts Smile

_________________

Cichlid23 · New Member Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Posts: 3 Location: NJ

My fish got hit with both Illnessess. I lost three so far in the past 3 weeks. None of the other fish look sick yet. One hides alot but he comes up for food.I did notice stringy poo today. Do I treat the rest of my tank?

Raf · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:21 pm Post subject:

Welcome to MalawiMayhem Smile

To be on the safe side, yes, especially if you are still noticing some of the symptoms.
_________________

Cichlid23 · New Member Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Posts: 3 Location: NJ

I treated my tank with the naladixic acid and epsom salt.I Took out the carbon as reccomended on package. I winded up treating the tank with 4 doses in 4 days(with water changes invloved). It didn't work. One fish died of bloat and I still see symptoms of bloat in another fish. (Stringy feces.) Is it imperative that you need to treat with both medications?

Where do you get the Metro?

Raf · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:33 pm Post subject:

Metronidazole is in several comercially available meds. Hex-a-Mit and Seachem Metro both contain it. Check at your LFS.
_________________

Fishguts · egg Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 82

When I treat with metro and n.acid, I use a triple dose of metro (cuz you can safely overdose with the stuff), the recommended 1/8 teaspoon of n.acid per 10 gallons and a TON of epsom salt. It is also VERY important to NOT feed during complete treatment period. I treat every day with a w/c evry two days between for a total of 6-8 doses. So it looks like this:

treat, treat, w/c treat, treat, w/c treat...etc.

Make sure your sponges or whatever media your using is not all caked up with built up wastes. Even think about removing some if not all the substrate. Try to identify it early. When they look like golfballs, it's gonna be tough.

Can the carbon for good. Totally useless. These fish get bloat and hexamita from feeding and lack of water changes. They need water changes of more than the 25% a week that is widely accepted. Cut back on feeding every so often. I prefer not to use pellets. My fish get HBH Graze flake, HBH Seafood Lovers flake, freeze-dried krill and pacifica plankton and pure spirulina flake (only has one ingredient). Feeding everyday is not necessary. Proper feeding is not just what you feed, but also how you feed.
_________________
http://nycichlids.com/index.php?sid=8019716fd35a1f189cb8a0be6ab7e177

"Singing to an ocean, I can hear the ocean's roar"

A song about a group's love for their audience.

Cichlid23 · New Member Joined: 03 Dec 2003 Posts: 3 Location: NJ

Thanks Fishguts,

I'll try your method for the hex&bloat and your fishkeeping tips as well.

I treated my tank with Parasite Guard(contains the Metro&Peso Food and The Naladixic Acid&Epson Salt for 4 days now.

It seems my bumblebee is still sick. It had signs of bloat but now he actually looks normal. (no swelling anymore) It still has some signs of hex though. The stringy poo seems to have stopped. However, he is still coughing up food. I mixed the flake food with "Pepso Food" (supposedly it clears intestinal fish parasites. Your suppose to use it with the parasite guard which contains the metro. It's made By Jungle)The rest of my fish seem fine. They all ate the flakes and pepso. Their waste seems normal.

I will treat again only with what you reccomended and not feed them this time as well.

I have a deep sand bed as a substrate. Do you think it is necessary to take some or all of it out? I try and remove the feces as soon as I see it.

Thanks for your help.

KrAz3eAoCp · Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:44 pm Post subject:

I believe she might be egg bound as of my female polit, she has a swollen belly for about 3 or 4 months now and she's doing fine, perfectly fine eats well, active, no white fece, chases other fishes, go thru the routine of dancing with the male but she's just not laying any eggs. I've tried the epsom salt bath with her as I have read but she still didn't lay her egg and now her belly is still swallen but not dying, really really healthy. I still in question on how i can make her release her eggs. I know egg bound is not common with africans but it do happens.

micah · egg Joined: 27 Oct 2004 Posts: 90 Location: Austin, Texas

FYI... I found out this week that the makers of Paragon II have gone out of business.

RD · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject:

Interesting thread, but lots of misinformation being bantered around.

dpaslean · egg Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 53

Thanks RD for the reassurement of pellets. I have been treating my new fish with met-soaked NLS all week and they look much better. After losing 3 haps last weekend to bloat, and noticing thread-like feces hanging from my 3 azureus, I was a little scared I was losing them also. But now 5 days later, no irregular feces, no protruding stomachs and they eat voraciously. Very active. I also had 80 ppm nitrate level water coming from my tap water that I also believe contributed to the bloat. I have now solved that problem and nitrates are 10.
I plan on adding more fish in the future but will quaratine them first and feed met. food before going into my 125 tank.

RD · Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:40 am Post subject:

No problem, glad to help.

If a pellet food contains high quality ingredients, that are easily digested by a fish, then there will be no gastrointestinal issues, unless one overfeeds by 'massive' amounts.

Usually if/when diet is the trigger in a case of bloat, it is caused by poor quality ingredients that the fish has difficulty digesting. If a fish can't digest the food, then it can lead to impactions in the gut. The fish stops eating (as it can't pass what's already in it) the impacted area goes septic from multiplying bacteria, and the result can be (and quite often is) deadly.

Many people feed strict herbivores such as Tropheus, pellets, and never have bloat, others feed flake foods to their Tropheus, and have bloat occur in their tanks. IMO the key thing to remember when using any food, is use a high quality easily digestible food, and DO NOT OVERFEED. If you stuff your fish with pellets that are too large for the fish to begin with, then yes, that can obviously cause gastrointestinal issues in a fish.
_________________
Cichlid-Food-Canada.com